On a less positive note, it’s deeply frustrating that, while its central and supporting male characters are flawed and complex characters, with a few extremely minor exceptions (such as the aforementioned optional getaway driver), GTA V has little room for women except to portray them as strippers, prostitutes, long-suffering wives, humorless girlfriends and goofy, new-age feminists we’re meant to laugh at.
Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them “smell like a bitch.” Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism. The beauty of cruising in the sun-kissed Los Santos hills while listening to “Higher Love” by Steve Winwood turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal.
Gamespot GTA V review, by Carolyn Petit
My issue here is that she doesn't think the offending elements are satirical. Now, I haven't played GTA V yet (waiting for it to arrive from the UK), so let me make it clear that this is all conjecture. But, I have played every Grand Theft Auto game since GTA III (sans Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories), and I've never known the series to promote misogyny, nor Rockstar to be misogynistic themselves. The environments of all previous GTA games have been almost entirely satirical. Everything is a piss-take, from the characters, to the landscape, to the buildings, to the dialogue, to the in-game ads—everything is taking the piss to some degree.
In San Andreas (2004), I distinctly remember the K-DST radio station (a classic rock station) making at least one domestic violence joke, quite a few misogynistic rap songs being played on Radio Los Santos (a gangsta rap station), a female waitress in a casino bringing a Mafia boss a sandwich—all kinds of content which, in and of itself, can certainly be seen as misogynistic. But within the context of the game as a piece of satire, these attitudes are by no means promoted (the boot-up screen for the game outright states at the beginning that the developers don't endorse any of the behaviour within). The game is just representing 90's culture. Representing a version of reality at any point in history doesn't automatically mean you're promoting the values of the time.
As for GTA IV (2008), while most of the characters are men (based off the fact that most criminal organisations are run by, and for the benefit of, men), you've got some powerful female roles in the story. Along the way, Niko (the main character) meets a drug-lord by the name of Elizabeta, who blankly states she's fighting as a woman in a man's world; and he meets an undercover cop by the name of Karen, who dates him under false pretences and ends up leading him to work for an undercover organisation.
It should be clear to any adult legally capable of buying these games, people who should be capable of critical thought, that misogynistic behaviour isn't ethical (and, when it comes to ethics in GTA, the fact that you can shoot anything that moves is, perhaps, of greater concern :P). Add to this that the writers of GTA IV, the previous major instalment, were quite clearly aware of misogyny in the US, and you have yourself a franchise which I highly doubt would even try, let alone succeed at, promoting misogynistic behaviours or mindsets.
Again, I have not played the game, so, for all I know, the game really is atrocious in its promotion of misogyny. But I don't think this will be the case when I play the game for myself. I firmly believe that the reviewer here has simply not found the satire funny or appealing, and that in failing to find it funny, she's decided it can't be satire to begin with. Take the line "... [the game] turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal." Yes, and? You don't find that line funny, therefore hearing that line will convince me that I should treat women like urinals? Do you honestly think Rockstar are promoting that kind of behaviour? Do you honestly think anyone who plays the game will hear that and determine it acceptable to partake in such an activity? It's a clear-cut and unmistakable parody of misogyny, not a promotion of it. And anyone who thinks that's appropriate behaviour would have to have major psychological issues to begin with. Whether or not you find something amusing doesn't determine whether or not it's satirical, nor does it determine whether or not that something promotes certain behaviours.
Contrary to what people think, comedy isn't all happiness and joy—in fact, if you analyse comedy, you'll find most of it is born out of tragedy and immorality. To quote comedian Lenny Bruce (note that he is assuming the role of a character, speaking to another character in this routine):
Men like yourself and Lenny Bruce thrive upon the continuance of segregation, violence and disease. The Messiah returns, all is pure—you're standing in the red line.
'Thank You Masked Man', Warning, Lenny Bruce Is Out Again (1961)
Just because I laugh at something doesn't mean I condone what I'm laughing at, and the same goes for everyone on this planet. I've laughed at jokes involving murder, torture, sexual assault, rape, genocide, suicide—all kinds of dark subject matter—but that doesn't mean I promote or condone that behaviour. If any one of those things was to actually happen in front of me, I'd be shocked. I would feel empathy for the victims, as would almost anyone else. Would I laugh? I could laugh, perhaps. But I wouldn't be laughing at the victim, nor would I even be able to decide whether I laugh or not (because you don't get to pick what you find funny). No humour I may find in a situation can inhibit my capacity to sympathise or empathise with others. If anything, I've used comedy to highlight discriminatory mindsets like misogyny, both in listening to the comedy of others and in writing my own material. Granted, not all comedy is intended to be satire, and not all satire is intended to be comedy; but in the case of GTA, the satire is intended to be funny, as it always has been.
To reiterate, I may play the game and determine that, yes, the game does feature elements of misogyny. Shit, I could play the game and determine some elements of the game to be misandric —I have no goddamn clue until I play the game for myself. But I don't see any reason to think the game promotes anything like what this reviewer says it does, not given Rockstar's track record.
In addition to the review, there are people calling for the reviewer to be fired because of her belief that the game promotes sexism. These reactionary fucktards are exactly the kind of people Rockstar parody in their games :P It's not like the reviewer hated the game or gave it a bad score just because she thought it promoted sexism—she graded it 9 out of 10, for fuck's sake. To disagree with someone's view is one thing, but to call for their sacking because you disagree is something else entirely. There's a reason people often see gamers as entitled little cunts, and this is a huge part of that. Why are you wasting your time bitching and whining about some review for a game? If you love the game so much, shut up and go play it.
In any case, I'm still looking forward to the game, and will not to pay attention to any further reviews so I don't spoil anything :P
I don't play GTA or anything, never have, but funnily enough, that one review is the only one I actually saw for GTA5, and I think you'll disagree with me here, but I think that GTA does totally promote casual misogyny. It's not satirical, it's exaggerated for laughs but the laughs aren't due to gamers realising how ridiculous it is to ever think of women being treated badly and how sexism really is a part of society, its because sexism is funny. When the game says they don't support the views, it's because they know it's offensive. This isn't exactly related but http://www.shakesville.com/2011/02/penny-arcade-open-thread.html#comment-141696567
ReplyDeleteThis is always my go to for why offensive humour isn't cool. People are stupid and lots of them do internalise a lot of shitty messages. But I'm just gonna say that there is no way I would believe that GTA is trying to help women and reduce sexism through their games by highlighting it in a funny way. It's the opposite, no question.
I never said GTA is trying to help women or reduce sexism. Their only goal is to entertain.
DeleteBut you summed it up in your last sentence: "People are stupid and lots of them do internalise a lot of shitty messages." Absolutely true. That said, I do not believe the solution to that is censorship. The solution is educating the ignorant minority. You can hush rape jokes and whatever else all you want; that fraction of men defined as 'rapists' in that comment are still rapists and will still rape. I will always be fervently against catering to ignorance -- it should be directly combated, not worked around or patched up. There are also plenty of rape jokes I can cite which are clearly anti-rape. Just because a joke mentions rape does not mean it promotes it.
'Offensive humour' is entirely subjective; it depends on who your audience is. Try to offend me. Just try. You'll find it hard, believe me. With something as broad-reaching as GTA, or any other triple-A title, it's impossible to not offend someone (even G rated games sanitised to all hell have offended people).
I just think that GTA not only doesn't reduce sexism, it active spreads it and it's worth pointing out. I think rape jokes etc do that as well. Not all, there are 'anti-rape jokes', i'll agree there and that's ok, but I don't think people should condone jokes that trivialise rape or make it a joke. Maybe that's overly hard but if 1/6 women get sexually assaulted, the odds of at least one hearing you and being offended/hurt/less likely to speak up is pretty high and shouldn't that be a concern? I still think there's ways to be funny without being offensive. Like, I lovelovelove louis CK and he says heaps of out there shit, lots of the time about gender or sex or relationships that doesn't make me want to hit something. its certainly not about censoring the issues, its just about not contributing to an already toxic environment.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to say GTA actively spreads sexism without having played it, I'd need to see evidence to back that up. Having played the series for nearly a decade, I can only see potential for misinterpretation by those who are already misogynists. I'm having a hard time believing they actively spread sexism when they've had absolutely no effect on me, even when I was as young as 10.
DeleteMy comments about the rape thing were mainly in response to the link. Didn't mean to inadvertently project those views onto you.
I didn't mean censoring the issues—it's not like we can't talk about rape in comedic contexts, cos, as you've presented with the Louis CK example, we *can* talk about this stuff. His rape joke (if you know the one I mean) is probably the best example of an 'OK rape joke' I can think of. But when it comes to preventing people from saying 'sexist things' or 'things which trivialise rape', there's a great deal of interpretation when it comes to what's sexist and what's trivialising. If we weren't to agree on that, we'd be equivocating terms throughout our arguments and never get anywhere.
My view is that, because *I* can listen to people say sexist things and not be affected by them, others are capable of doing the same. I don't believe myself to be so far above average in terms of intellect that my comprehension skills are at Zen level or something—with the appropriate knowledge, I believe others could easily do the same. A view can't be promoted unless the listener accepts what's being said as a promotion, however intentional such a promotion may be. There is definitely a responsibility on the speaker/writer to make what they're saying *clear*, to prevent misinterpretation as much as possible, but they can only do that to a certain extent without being so blunt that they destroy the effect of what they wanted to say in the first place.
That said, I could only agree, unless provided with additional evidence, that GTA *passively* spreads sexism, and that this is only due to people misinterpreting what they're playing. I can't think of any 'active' promotion of sexism within any of the games.
I agree that the environment is toxic (all the reading I did on porn last week made it impossible to deny that, fucking horrible shit), but my approach to solving that problem isn't so much reducing 'bad' expression as it is increasing 'good' expression—in this case, informing people what the issues are, what rape is, what consent is, etc. I'd be fine with putting it right up in people's faces if the issue is stressing enough; and in the case of rape, given the statistics, I firmly believe it is.
And I certainly agree that you don't have to be offensive to be funny. Comics that are offensive all the time are rare, because most don't have that intention, and those that do aren't well received. It's just that what offends people varies from person to person. I can guarantee you that at least a few people on this planet thinks Louis CK is offensive—are they wrong for feeling that way? In terms of condoning jokes, my judgement there would also be affected by who the audience was and why that audience was there.
And what exactly is it that sets off victims? Triggers are everywhere, not just in jokes; and victims are everywhere too. Even an anti-rape pamphlet with the word 'rape' on it could make a victim feel bad, even though it's trying to help them. To me, it seems more reasonable to arm them so they can protect themselves from the effects of the triggers. Maybe that's impossible given the psychological effects of rape, but it seems like a better solution to me in theory.
To be honest, I'm not sure a debate would go anywhere cos there's so many things being discussed at once, and we're coming from different angles different starting points. But I appreciate your input, you do bring up valid points :)